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	<title>Comments on: Monday Morning Update 11/30/09</title>
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	<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/</link>
	<description>Healthcare IT News and Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: S Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/comment-page-1/#comment-7151</link>
		<dc:creator>S Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>HIS Junkie writes:

&quot;If humans were as ’simple’ as cars or computers, we would have outsourced healthcare to foriegn countries years ago and saved a bundle. Oh wait a sec, I just read where India is doing that very thing!&quot;

Outsourcing&#039;s got to stop.  Hospitals should control health IT locally.  Outsourcing may be appriopriate for an IT call center, but not for care and feeding of health IT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HIS Junkie writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;If humans were as ’simple’ as cars or computers, we would have outsourced healthcare to foriegn countries years ago and saved a bundle. Oh wait a sec, I just read where India is doing that very thing!&#8221;</p>
<p>Outsourcing&#8217;s got to stop.  Hospitals should control health IT locally.  Outsourcing may be appriopriate for an IT call center, but not for care and feeding of health IT.</p>
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		<title>By: HISJunkie</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/comment-page-1/#comment-7140</link>
		<dc:creator>HISJunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/#comment-7140</guid>
		<description>Thank you SeriouslyFolk yes, T in C it is...

If humans were as &#039;simple&#039; as cars or computers, we would have outsourced healthcare to foriegn countries years ago and saved a bundle. 
Oh wait a sec, I just read where India is doing that very thing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you SeriouslyFolk yes, T in C it is&#8230;</p>
<p>If humans were as &#8217;simple&#8217; as cars or computers, we would have outsourced healthcare to foriegn countries years ago and saved a bundle.<br />
Oh wait a sec, I just read where India is doing that very thing!</p>
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		<title>By: jon patrick</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/comment-page-1/#comment-7139</link>
		<dc:creator>jon patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/#comment-7139</guid>
		<description>HISTalk has made a number of interesting analyses about my essay such as it is &quot;not rigorous clinical studies backed up by specifically required measurements and analyses, so readers need to look carefully at their data and methods.&quot;  This comment has been made to me by others. The answer is simple, it never presents itself to be such a study and in fact states clearly it is not.  It is a critical review/observational study and a synthesis of a number of different types of information sources that require a critical analysis of evidence, that cannot of themselves be quantified, as is common and valid in the Social Sciences. That is one of the reasons i call it an essay and not a paper, so that the health reader is informed that it is a different type of analysis, given they are less used to this genre of evidence and writing. That does not make it any less valid so the warning in your comments is not reasonable. To accurately create the setting for the type of material it contained you should have drawn attention to the fact that it has in the header line the text &quot;Opinion editorial&quot;  and that would be fair comment.


You question my motivation and imply there is a lack of coverage in my choice of evidence in saying &quot;Both sets of authors are open source advocates and proprietary system critics, so when they rip commercial systems while lauding open source ones, you have to think about the subject they chose to write about, whether their data are optimal or simply conveniently available, and whether their conclusions are supported by their facts.&quot; The article states that it sets out to explain a contradiction between the success of Cerner commercially and the negative attitude of clinical staff to it. Such an objective must clearly provide the evidence for the negative  viewpoint given that the commercial success of Cerner is self-evident. Hence by definition of the objectives the negative evidence has to be provided to the reader. However I have provided in the essay EVERY piece of positive evidence that I found from the NSW clinical staff and that sent to me from overseas staff, but not every piece of negative evidence. 

To characterise me as an&quot;open source advocate and proprietary system critic&quot; is invalid by your criteria, that is you have no evidence for that as a generalisation. It is quite true I have advocated open source would solve the problem of vendor lock-in and I also believe that open source is important for State wide mission critical software systems in Australia given that the majority of our hospital services are provided by the State, but I am only a critic of Cerner Firstnet ( or Farcenet as it is being called here) AND the deployment methods used by NSWHealth/Cerner. I consider systems such a state wide build of an Emergency Department Information System as part of a health infrastructure and so the idea that the State cannot maintain such a system in its own manner as inappropriate. I have not criticised any other software manufacturer and my Lab works on other  commercial systems  where our research software is deployed to add enhancement functionality for Clinical Data Analytics (see CLINDAL on our web site, www.it.usyd.edu.au/~hitru).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HISTalk has made a number of interesting analyses about my essay such as it is &#8220;not rigorous clinical studies backed up by specifically required measurements and analyses, so readers need to look carefully at their data and methods.&#8221;  This comment has been made to me by others. The answer is simple, it never presents itself to be such a study and in fact states clearly it is not.  It is a critical review/observational study and a synthesis of a number of different types of information sources that require a critical analysis of evidence, that cannot of themselves be quantified, as is common and valid in the Social Sciences. That is one of the reasons i call it an essay and not a paper, so that the health reader is informed that it is a different type of analysis, given they are less used to this genre of evidence and writing. That does not make it any less valid so the warning in your comments is not reasonable. To accurately create the setting for the type of material it contained you should have drawn attention to the fact that it has in the header line the text &#8220;Opinion editorial&#8221;  and that would be fair comment.</p>
<p>You question my motivation and imply there is a lack of coverage in my choice of evidence in saying &#8220;Both sets of authors are open source advocates and proprietary system critics, so when they rip commercial systems while lauding open source ones, you have to think about the subject they chose to write about, whether their data are optimal or simply conveniently available, and whether their conclusions are supported by their facts.&#8221; The article states that it sets out to explain a contradiction between the success of Cerner commercially and the negative attitude of clinical staff to it. Such an objective must clearly provide the evidence for the negative  viewpoint given that the commercial success of Cerner is self-evident. Hence by definition of the objectives the negative evidence has to be provided to the reader. However I have provided in the essay EVERY piece of positive evidence that I found from the NSW clinical staff and that sent to me from overseas staff, but not every piece of negative evidence. </p>
<p>To characterise me as an&#8221;open source advocate and proprietary system critic&#8221; is invalid by your criteria, that is you have no evidence for that as a generalisation. It is quite true I have advocated open source would solve the problem of vendor lock-in and I also believe that open source is important for State wide mission critical software systems in Australia given that the majority of our hospital services are provided by the State, but I am only a critic of Cerner Firstnet ( or Farcenet as it is being called here) AND the deployment methods used by NSWHealth/Cerner. I consider systems such a state wide build of an Emergency Department Information System as part of a health infrastructure and so the idea that the State cannot maintain such a system in its own manner as inappropriate. I have not criticised any other software manufacturer and my Lab works on other  commercial systems  where our research software is deployed to add enhancement functionality for Clinical Data Analytics (see CLINDAL on our web site, <a href="http://www.it.usyd.edu.au/~hitru" rel="nofollow">http://www.it.usyd.edu.au/~hitru</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Cynical CIO</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/comment-page-1/#comment-7134</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical CIO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/#comment-7134</guid>
		<description>Re: reader contest. Let’s hear ideas to reduce healthcare costs

At the risk of opening a political can of worms.  Let&#039;s deport the illegal aliens.  One swoop 30 million uninsured off the rolls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: reader contest. Let’s hear ideas to reduce healthcare costs</p>
<p>At the risk of opening a political can of worms.  Let&#8217;s deport the illegal aliens.  One swoop 30 million uninsured off the rolls.</p>
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		<title>By: Eustace McGargle</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/comment-page-1/#comment-7133</link>
		<dc:creator>Eustace McGargle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://histalk2.com/2009/11/27/monday-morning-update-113009/#comment-7133</guid>
		<description>Re: Eclipsys. Both sides of the comments are wrong. Sarasota Memorial has never been a TDS shop. Yes the software turned on in 1998 was HealthVISION&#039;S which Eclipsys purchased not long after, but it&#039;s the same software. All 50 million ordered were entered in SCM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Eclipsys. Both sides of the comments are wrong. Sarasota Memorial has never been a TDS shop. Yes the software turned on in 1998 was HealthVISION&#8217;S which Eclipsys purchased not long after, but it&#8217;s the same software. All 50 million ordered were entered in SCM.</p>
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