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	<title>Comments on: Can EMRs Moonlighting as Research Databases Sweeten Their ROI?</title>
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	<description>Healthcare IT News and Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: HITVeteran</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2007/12/26/can-emrs-moonlighting-as-research-databases-sweeten-their-roi/comment-page-1/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>HITVeteran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://histalk2.com/2007/12/26/can-emrs-moonlighting-as-research-databases-sweeten-their-roi/#comment-585</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting what cycles back through this industry. This extra ROI from research has already been tried as a way sweeten the ROI pot in academic medical centers. This happened in the late 80&#039;s,  in the early days of basic order entry &amp; results reporting. One intended extra ROI was to come from providing an edge in winning grants through lower cost data accumulation . It didn&#039;t work out very well. The clash between the IT factions was basically fatal. The clinical systems team had to design and tune the database for speed within an operational support application. The research informatics team needed a data rich relational environment available for large ad-hoc extraction routines. 10:00AM when doctors were rounding and the research team fired off a query for all patient lab results for the last 3 years was always a nightmare. The hard money from keeping attendings happy and the practice program revenues up won out over the soft money from research. 

There was also a more subtle flaw. The desire to continue to pack things into the basic OE/ R - EMR design in order to to pick up all the extra potential pieces of ROI in order to pay for front-end costs.  Imo,  this has led to a tremendous overengineering - if the original objective was to support clinicians in day-to-day care delivery -  and projects-that-never-end phenomenon.  In the run-up of design with the intent to reach a &quot;critical mass&quot; of functionality necessary for lots of buckets of benefits to accumulate a positive ROI,  we continually forget that in physics critical mass is when things explode. Which they do in overly complexed EMR projects too. It usually takes about a 7 year cycle to forget and the complexity to return. E.G. CHINs to RHIOs

Obviously, the advances in architecture and increases in computing power and storage could address the first problem. But, over the years EMR projects have taken on a life of their own. The sunk cost - $, emotions, egos - prevents returning to the original design questions and objectives. It prevents the potential for rethinking the answers and adopting new tools to achieve the core objectivs. Instead, one vendor with a data processing architecture is abandoned for another. And so cultural clashes over objectives and priorities continue, if not getting worse. I think we would be best served if we followed Antoine de Saint-Exupéry&#039;s advise: &quot;Great design is not when there is nothing left to add but when there is nothing left to take away&quot;.  That is, let&#039;s get &quot;hospital systems to swap clinical data across the hall&quot; and then move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting what cycles back through this industry. This extra ROI from research has already been tried as a way sweeten the ROI pot in academic medical centers. This happened in the late 80&#8242;s,  in the early days of basic order entry &amp; results reporting. One intended extra ROI was to come from providing an edge in winning grants through lower cost data accumulation . It didn&#8217;t work out very well. The clash between the IT factions was basically fatal. The clinical systems team had to design and tune the database for speed within an operational support application. The research informatics team needed a data rich relational environment available for large ad-hoc extraction routines. 10:00AM when doctors were rounding and the research team fired off a query for all patient lab results for the last 3 years was always a nightmare. The hard money from keeping attendings happy and the practice program revenues up won out over the soft money from research. </p>
<p>There was also a more subtle flaw. The desire to continue to pack things into the basic OE/ R &#8211; EMR design in order to to pick up all the extra potential pieces of ROI in order to pay for front-end costs.  Imo,  this has led to a tremendous overengineering &#8211; if the original objective was to support clinicians in day-to-day care delivery &#8211;  and projects-that-never-end phenomenon.  In the run-up of design with the intent to reach a &#8220;critical mass&#8221; of functionality necessary for lots of buckets of benefits to accumulate a positive ROI,  we continually forget that in physics critical mass is when things explode. Which they do in overly complexed EMR projects too. It usually takes about a 7 year cycle to forget and the complexity to return. E.G. CHINs to RHIOs</p>
<p>Obviously, the advances in architecture and increases in computing power and storage could address the first problem. But, over the years EMR projects have taken on a life of their own. The sunk cost &#8211; $, emotions, egos &#8211; prevents returning to the original design questions and objectives. It prevents the potential for rethinking the answers and adopting new tools to achieve the core objectivs. Instead, one vendor with a data processing architecture is abandoned for another. And so cultural clashes over objectives and priorities continue, if not getting worse. I think we would be best served if we followed Antoine de Saint-Exupéry&#8217;s advise: &#8220;Great design is not when there is nothing left to add but when there is nothing left to take away&#8221;.  That is, let&#8217;s get &#8220;hospital systems to swap clinical data across the hall&#8221; and then move on.</p>
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		<title>By: DogEars</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2007/12/26/can-emrs-moonlighting-as-research-databases-sweeten-their-roi/comment-page-1/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>DogEars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A large Medical Center in central Wisconsin has already accomplished this integration. They have been a leader in research studies. Most of their success has been based on the totally electronic record they have developed for their Clinical practice. The database contains all the information that is needed for their epidemeolog y. Study participants in almost all cases have a history built within the EMR which contains millions of patients throughout Wisconsin and other states. Participants can consent to release of their entire medical record for research.  The Personalized Medicine Research Project allows researchers at Marshfield Clinic  to learn more about how genetic alterations cause diseases, how to use an individual&#039;s genetic information to predict which diseases he or she is likely to get, and which medications work best for a particular person. For more information on how these systems are all tied together see: http://www.marshfieldclinic.org/research/pages/index.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A large Medical Center in central Wisconsin has already accomplished this integration. They have been a leader in research studies. Most of their success has been based on the totally electronic record they have developed for their Clinical practice. The database contains all the information that is needed for their epidemeolog y. Study participants in almost all cases have a history built within the EMR which contains millions of patients throughout Wisconsin and other states. Participants can consent to release of their entire medical record for research.  The Personalized Medicine Research Project allows researchers at Marshfield Clinic  to learn more about how genetic alterations cause diseases, how to use an individual&#8217;s genetic information to predict which diseases he or she is likely to get, and which medications work best for a particular person. For more information on how these systems are all tied together see: <a href="http://www.marshfieldclinic.org/research/pages/index.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.marshfieldclinic.org/research/pages/index.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Alchemist</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2007/12/26/can-emrs-moonlighting-as-research-databases-sweeten-their-roi/comment-page-1/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>The Alchemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>From 1985 thru 1997, Health Laboratory Research Institute had populated a private self payor database of over 95 diagnostic laboratory analytics.  From a pure research perspective to defining translational diagnostics, knowing the run values of your albumin to very low density lipoprotein could be of great value for approximating human homeostatic physiology.

But then again, who really cares if there is no money to be made?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From 1985 thru 1997, Health Laboratory Research Institute had populated a private self payor database of over 95 diagnostic laboratory analytics.  From a pure research perspective to defining translational diagnostics, knowing the run values of your albumin to very low density lipoprotein could be of great value for approximating human homeostatic physiology.</p>
<p>But then again, who really cares if there is no money to be made?</p>
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		<title>By: HISJunkie</title>
		<link>http://histalk2.com/2007/12/26/can-emrs-moonlighting-as-research-databases-sweeten-their-roi/comment-page-1/#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>HISJunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You bet!! In spades and it would be a great way to fund IT ...since it&#039;s clear the Feds really won&#039;t. Hey, drug compamies are really the only ones making big profits on the federal health dollar, so lets get some from them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You bet!! In spades and it would be a great way to fund IT &#8230;since it&#8217;s clear the Feds really won&#8217;t. Hey, drug compamies are really the only ones making big profits on the federal health dollar, so lets get some from them!</p>
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